Spyker F8-VII - Launch

[AAS]

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Envy, disfavor, hate are shit

[HF]

(1)
(How old were you when his F1 career began? )

(2)
The Schumacher victory series was boring.
I look forward to this season. Without Schumacher, that is great.

(3)
But fact is, you cannot discuss with an Englishman about Schumacher.
Only if you are a Schumacher hater.

1) if it was 1994, I don't know it right and am to lazy to look for this , I was 3. Sweet 3 years old and my sister was born

2) Yes, it was really boring! I hated it!

3) Mh, possible... I can, someone else can't..

[Moonrakerâ„¢]

But fact is, you cannot discuss with an Englishman about Schumacher.
Only if you are a Schumacher hater.

Sorry m8, that's bullshit. I don't "hate him" at all. I'm happy to discuss his career with anyone. You have a go at me for generalising and you do the same thing.

He was awesome in the wet. No doubt. Just I think he settled for the easy ride. He even rejected going to race in the US this year (NASCAR I think). He once slagged it off, but refuses to try it. and how many times did I hear him say "I love racing. It's in my blood. I will always need to race".

He just never took a challenge. People say "Oh but he went to Ferrari when they were shit".... ok.

1) They were not shit, just not as good as they are now. You look in terms of how they were... they were like Honda now in 1994 - 96. Except they won a few GP's. Yet I 100% doubt Schumacher could do that now to Honda.

2) Does $15m per year mean nothing? Fuck sake. Anyone would drive out of their arse for that! Compared to like Hakkinene who was on around £4m per year and Hill on around £3m - £4m a year. It was insane!

3) He took half of the WINNING Benetton team with him. It wasn't his success. It was a HUGE team effort. Even Irvine had a run when he was out with broken legs.

4) What car has he raced that was crap? Webber got 5th on his debut in possibly the worst car out there. With a slightly crippled car too (broken differential). - Put Schuey in a Super Aguri. I BEG! - Bet Davidson (YEAH EVEN SATO) would outpace him.

All that said, he clearly does have talent. No doubt. HUGE talent. Especially in the wet. But I still think Kimi is faster, Montoya is more aggressive overtaking (hence better in that department), and Button more smooth.

Alonso is showing us what a champion is. You don't see him ramming someone at the last corner. Barging people off, stopping his car in a chicane, winning a race in the pit-lane and not serving a 10second penalty, having his team mate dominate a race and then "CLEARLY" move out of the way.....

It's a cloud he will always have over him, and one that doesn't give him legendary status. The Senna's, Pique's, Stewart's, Fangio's, Moss', Prost's clearly have more over him. ESPECIALLY in the gentleman era. But by far he was never a bad driver. Just VERY overated by certain people.

And as a note, he's enver won the race of champions either! lol.

[Greyhead]

I'm an Englishman and I admit I never liked Schumacher but I have huge respect for the way he almost single-handedly pulled Ferrari around from being... well, crap frankly, to being the best in the business. OK, so Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne had something to do with it too but would they have gone to Ferrari if Jean Todt hadn't already managed to get Schumacher there? Nobody but Schumacher could have galvanised that team the way he did, putting in the hours down at Maranello, testing whenever he got the chance, and generally being involved with everything. Admittedly he rewrote the rules of acceptable on-track behaviour but then so did Senna! If you're not pushing the boundaries, you're not trying hard enough. Plus, who else but Schumacher could have won the title in those Benettons? As Alesi and Berger proved later, those cars were hardly the class of the field. And for him to take the '97 title down to the wire in a pretty average car against a Williams... It's pretty good stuff really!

[TdK]

AAS wrote:

Jos is a great driver.
And this is one of my greatest motorsport moments :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuKiQsL3xik

I totaly agree....

[V12-Power]

Of course Webber, Davidson and Sato are better than Schumacher. Verstappen as well. I think it would take me some hours to list all the F1-drivers that are or were better than Schumacher.

Schumacher had only success because he had a good team, teammates who were paid for beeing slower than him and of course, most important, because he cheated a lot.

I'm really happy that he's finally out of business now, he almost destroyed F1. Now everything will be better and a new golden-era of F1 can begin.

[AAS]

Code: Select all

Sportliche Daten
Saisons aktiv    16
Grand Prix gesamt    Â» 250
Siege    Â» 90
2. Plätze    Â» 43
3. Plätze    Â» 20
4. Plätze    Â» 11
5. Plätze    Â» 10
6. Plätze    Â» 7
Pole Positions    Â» 68
Erste Startreihe    Â» 114
Schnellste Runden    Â» 73
Führungsrunden    4926
Führungskilometer    23219
WM-Punkte gesamt    1359

Envy, disfavor, hate are shit

[DJS]

You guys are way off topic.....

Just a few things I'd like to say:
Ever since I followed F1, starting back in 1994, I liked Schumacher.
For sure he did things that were doubtfull, but he wanted to win, at all costs, simple as that. Senna did the same but a bit different, so some people disagree on this.
The Benetton was not as good as the Williams when Schumacher became champion.
He drove a really bad car in 1996, do you remember how Irvine got on in 1996? I don't, maybe because it was really bad. Schumacher won with this car, just because of his skills.
The car broke down very often in 1996, sometimes even before the race....
He made Ferrari a good team, it wasn't very good when he started.

Schumacher and NASCAR. It seems that when Schumacher was on holiday in the USA (2004 or so) he went to a raceschool and asked if he could have a go in a NASCAR, but they refused because it was fully booked that day. Because he didn't like that treatment he turned his back to NASCAR. One teamowner has said that whenever Schumi is up for a testdrive, he can have a go, but I think that's too late, because of the story above.

All in all, we have witnessed a legend, something we'll never see again in our lifetime, maybe our children won't even see something similar.
Please keep that in mind, even if you don't like the guy.

Now back to Spyker, for goodness sake.
It seems that they'll have a new aero package in Malaysia.
And I've done most of the new livery for Gp2, just missing some bits'n'pieces.

[Moonrakerâ„¢]

Schumacher and NASCAR. It seems that when Schumacher was on holiday in the USA (2004 or so) he went to a raceschool and asked if he could have a go in a NASCAR, but they refused because it was fully booked that day. Because he didn't like that treatment he turned his back to NASCAR. One teamowner has said that whenever Schumi is up for a testdrive, he can have a go, but I think that's too late, because of the story above.

Shows what a man he was. How stuck up. That's pathetic. "He didn't like the treament?"... Fuckin stupid primadonna.

All in all, we have witnessed a legend, something we'll never see again in our lifetime, maybe our children won't even see something similar. Please keep that in mind, even if you don't like the guy.

He's also responsible for dwindling viewing numbers.... keep THAT in mind.

[V12-Power]

Do you wanna know the reason why Schumacher doesn't want to drive NASCAR? Here a statement of him:

"Was ist so aufregend an ihr? Ich kann nichts Aufregendes daran erkennen, in Ovalen zu fahren. Ich weiß nicht, wie schwer diese Autos sind, aber ein im Vergleich zur Formel 1 sehr wenig entwickeltes Auto zu haben, ist in meinen Augen keine Herausforderung."

Translation
"What's so exiting about it? I can't see anything exiting on driving in Ovals. I don't know how much these cars weight, but to have a, in relation to F1, very undeveloped car is no challenge in my eyes."

I guess the last sentence is also a bit because of Montoya, he sent very unfriendly and disrespectful words (just like Moonrakerâ„¢ does it here) from America.

He's also responsible for dwindling viewing numbers.... keep THAT in mind.

Good argument against him, that absolutely show he's no champion!

[DJS]

Moonraker, if you're THE best in racing at that time and you go somewhere and ask if you can have a go, they'll say for sure, here you go.
But since they haven't got a clue up in the States of who Schumacher is, they treated him like "John Whateverhislastname", like a regular guy.
If Jeff Gordon or Dale Earnhardt jr. would want to have a go at F1, I think they would get a chance, just to test it.
It's just with what respect you treat somebody, that's what it's all about.

So indeed Fridtjof, Schumacher has been talking about NASCAR that way because of this and because of Montoya.

BUT please this is the Spyker launch thread, start a new one if you like to keep going on about this. And please give the guy some credits for his titles/wins, you both are not being really objective, you're just dissing.

[V12-Power]

At least I did not get disrespectful and abusive (and never would). Not against drivers, forum-members or anyone else. I'll end this discussion now, ok...

[Moonrakerâ„¢]

It's passion.

Passion>lack of knowledge.

On the note of Spyker, Verstappen should test for them. It would be good PR as the Dutch are obsessed with him.

[AAS]

Code: Select all

Sportliche Daten
Saisons aktiv    16
Grand Prix gesamt    Â» 250
Siege    Â» 90
2. Plätze    Â» 43
3. Plätze    Â» 20
4. Plätze    Â» 11
5. Plätze    Â» 10
6. Plätze    Â» 7
Pole Positions    Â» 68
Erste Startreihe    Â» 114
Schnellste Runden    Â» 73
Führungsrunden    4926
Führungskilometer    23219
WM-Punkte gesamt    1359

Envy, disfavor, hate are shit

[Moonrakerâ„¢]

Many(not all!) Germans get blinded by their nationality.