Playability and realism of GP2 compared with today's games

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Murilo67
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Re: Playability and realism of GP2 compared with today's games

Post by Murilo67 »

rremedio wrote:
20.01.2021, 18:09
AAS is Andreas Schulz. The conversions I mention are not from the GP3 original tracks but from user-made custom GP3 tracks and they are all excellent.

I also prefer the early 90's tracks and F1 as a whole but I decided to tackle the 2019 season because people always asked about some of those tracks and because some of the existing ones really needed some form of an update. Hopefully, we can finish it soon because omg it is a lot of work and it isn't very exciting for me. That said, some of those tracks like Spa, Monza, RB Ring, Barc
elona, Sakhir, Melbourne, Interlagos, etc, are fitting for most kinds and eras of cars and most of them are fun to drive.
When will the interlagos update be available for download ????
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iKeysRacing
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Re: Playability and realism of GP2 compared with today's games

Post by iKeysRacing »

Good afternoon to all of you,

this is a very nice topic and I would like to share some personal ideas.
Sorry to be a bit long but points are many and all important, I think without presumption.

Above all, I DO LOVE GP2 in particular (GPx series in general) more than any other title, past or present.

But also above all I do consider any simulation...a simulation: so not the real thing.
With a simulator we will always miss Gforces, body fatigue, risks, etc etc.

That being said I persoally find a huge difference between GPx series of Crammond and many other simulators came out in the '90s/2000s.
Like Indycar, Nascar, GPLegends from Papyrus (well comparable in that era).

To me the main difference on game-enjoyability is tyres management.

The only "thing" attached to the track surface are tyres. In real life and in simulators.
Whatever the car you drive (especially in real motorsport) if you don't get the right temperature-window of usage you will be slow.
Or you will spin, or worse.

Why do I make a point on this matter?

Because if you try a real racecar (even a F.Junior or even a professional go-kart is enough) with a real team working and supporting you (not those promos like "Drive a Ferrari on a racetrack" and then you just get 3 laps if you don't pay more) you get the point.

The limit of any racecar is achieved when (as much as possible) all the 4 tyres are working within their suggested/supposed window-temperature and (as much as possible) the entire - or majority - of tyre-surface is attached to the asphalt.
That gives you the most possible "footprint" on the surface and so the most possible grip and so the most possible speed in every turn...and so the quickest lap (your own or of the entire field).

If you don't believe :( me consider that the first thing a mechanic/engineer does, when you go back to the pits, is checking internal-mid-external temperature of all 4 tyres. Or mainly the ones more affected (like at Indy500 for example, the F and R external ones).
If you don't have sensors and telemetry on board, obviously that comes more easy to be read, stored and analyzed.

With that main point in mind you work on car setup and then car behaviour (understeering, oversteering, neutral) accordingly to what you feel as a driver/athlete (we are not all the same luckily also in this sport).

That being said #2: back when GP1234 came out they were not supposed to work on this main and important factor coming from motorsport.
That is a real one in real life, and that affects everything else (driving style, setups, consumption, vertical-"shape"/deformation of the tyre itself, ...).

And to be honest I like this thing: Crammond and his team maybe understood that was more important to give us a sort of "overall" sense about driving an F1 car; more than go deeply into technical matters related to replicate a tyre-behaviour (setups apart that are anyway well made within GPx series).

This point maybe also explains why in GPx we don't have tyre-temp readings, angles of camber, caster, toe...that instead were all included and important factors on Papyrus titles, back then.

I've tried almost all of simulators from GP1 through F1s by CodeMasters, GranTurismo on PS123, SCGT, TIR, various rally-games,...up to almost all modern ones starting from rFactor1, GTR, GTR2, GTLegends, RaceRoom (is free).
Not yet iRacing, AssettoCorsa and Automoblista.

But in general: if you have a game dependent on tyre-temp (and so grip) then the sense is comparable between many titles.
We should open then a check-point on how realistic the simulation of tyre-behaviour is...compared to real life I mean.

I find more enjoyable GPx because it is technical but not too much.
It gives back a decent feedback of "how is" drive an F1 car, as a general sense of car-attitude, without forcing you to go mad on technical matters, not too much at least.
Especially if you play with keyboard and all the hidden helps GP1234 all have to help to keep the correct line.
With pedals/wheel is another story, because changes the way we "feel" the car, but even there the main sense is accomplished.

I've neve thought I could have played GPx with wheel/pedals 25 years after its release and enjoy it more than anything else.

Sometimes I feel we all should sign a "Thank you card" to be sent then to Mr.Crammond that really made this place a better one to live in.

Best wishes to you all.
Stay home, stay safe, stay racing if you live in a country still hardly hammered by f@cking-Covid19.

Cheers.
Marco
Marco Lazzari
Youtube: iKeyRacing
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Murilo67
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Re: Playability and realism of GP2 compared with today's games

Post by Murilo67 »

What tools do you need to create a GRAND PRIX 2 track ???
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Murilo67
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Re: Playability and realism of GP2 compared with today's games

Post by Murilo67 »

Interlagos 2007 is now available for download ???
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rremedio
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Re: Playability and realism of GP2 compared with today's games

Post by rremedio »

Murilo67 wrote:
08.04.2021, 15:48
What tools do you need to create a GRAND PRIX 2 track ???
The Track Editor is the main one. You can create a new track by using only it. But to create a quality track you will also need the Jam Editor, the Object Editor is not required but it is much easier to use to create custom objects than doing it directly into the Track Editor. You will also need a graphics program like GIMP, Photoshop, paint.net, etc and the old (Windows XP or older) version of MS Paint is also very handy to make sure the colors are correct. Check this page for tutorials -> http://grandprix2.de/Anleitung/tutus/tutus.htm
Murilo67 wrote:
09.04.2021, 06:14
Interlagos 2007 is now available for download ???
I don't think there is any available version of Interlagos which is newer than 2000 (or maybe 2001). I think there was a newer version with graphics from around 2009 from Thiago Valério but I can't find it.

Interlagos 2019 will hopefully be available in the next few months.
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Murilo67
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Re: Playability and realism of GP2 compared with today's games

Post by Murilo67 »

Ok thank you very much
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Murilo67
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Re: Playability and realism of GP2 compared with today's games

Post by Murilo67 »

What tools do you need to create a Formula 1 tire?
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rremedio
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Re: Playability and realism of GP2 compared with today's games

Post by rremedio »

Murilo67 wrote:
12.04.2021, 16:39
What tools do you need to create a Formula 1 tire?
You need a graphics program to make the textures and then you need to build the jam files with them. If the textures have the same layout and size as the original ones, you can do it with GP2Edit. Otherwise, you're gonna need the Jam Editor.
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MaxX
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Re: Playability and realism of GP2 compared with today's games

Post by MaxX »

ismael wrote:
08.09.2017, 09:21
This is a kind of off-topic talk but I think it fits here nonetheless. Those of you who have been playing the F1 games for Playstation by Codemasters, how do you compare the playability of those games against GP2 and the 2 successors?

Back in the day, I really felt that the playability of GP2 was superior to the first F1 playstation games of the time, and even for PC, like the F1 2002. For sure, the graphics and extra options of F1 2017, classic cars, blabla, are awesome, etc. (GP2 also have classic cars through this site and forum 8) ) but my question is about the reality level of actual gaming, of the driving and the way the car feels. Through the years I hear the critics saying that the playability is not that realist, although the F1 2006 for PS had a lot of fans for it.

What do you think?
In terms of realism there are games now, which are real good simulations and there will always be better ones as computer capabilties are providing more possibilites of calculations which each generation and GP2 is more than 25 years old now (OMG, btw :lol: ).

But in terms of (re)playability, we still have an active community still releasing new stuff and GP2 can now be played with different racing leagues and car types spanning over many decades. And as mentioned earlier, Geoff Crammond and his Team really did a great job concerning the racing feeling and what can be done on track. Personally I don`t have the time to invest many hours and hours just to be competitive and GP2 is also great here. On new tracks it is possible to get a good setup in a reasonable amount of time and winning races on ace level using keyboard.

As some guys mentioned how they play, I have many seasons ready to race within D-FEND reloaded. I try to keep the BHP in modern (2000+) sets at 800, so I can reuse setups and the best driver with 16300 grip, which is similar to the best drivers in the vanilla version. Older sets until 80ies are kept at standard BHP. Personally I don`t care if the laptimes are not 100% accurate to that season. But most of the time I race with my fictional revised carset (currently not published) and currently two seasons (2nd is WIP) with my favorite circuits and layouts of them. Initially I used the 800 BHP, standard grip for player and the CPU-Driver grips until I set all records and won many races even with the slowest car. I then changed player grip to 0 (it is much more fun to push more during a race) and raised the best opponent to max grip within GP2Edit. The slowest opponent qualifies within a second of the fastest, so there is a very competitive field and still some teams constantly winning and all 26 drivers scoring at least one point (the first ten get points, but with 25-15-10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1).

Then I used rremedios slot editor to raise the AI car grip on each track so they are approx half a second of pace of my records (the new records with player grip set to 0). Then I also adapted the pit stop strategies with Paul Hoad`s track editior to match that field and to avoid 50% of the cars running an useless strategy (refueling is allowed). The outcome is, that now I have challenging but winnable races. I just can`t burn all laps in a 100% race distance race at record level, so the races are intense and interesting. The worst team has 60 bhp less, so it is possible to score some good results but no easy wins anymore. I started a new season at ace level and 100% race distance yesterday and really enjoyed the close battle at Phoenix Road Course (Michael82`s 91er version), which I won with a margin of 3 seconds and many overtakes and reovertakes against the fastest AI car, only lapping three cars (one of them had a technical issue and pit stop) and 21 cars seeing the flag. To be honest, most of the time I play with my fictional carset, I just love to only have tracks I like to race on in a season and of course driving my beloved Minare :D
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Re: Playability and realism of GP2 compared with today's games

Post by samsepi0l »

MaxX wrote:
12.04.2021, 23:18
....of course driving my beloved Minare :D
Do you mean "Minarae" from Super Monaco 2?
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MaxX
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Re: Playability and realism of GP2 compared with today's games

Post by MaxX »

samsepi0l wrote:
12.04.2021, 23:37
MaxX wrote:
12.04.2021, 23:18
....of course driving my beloved Minare :D
Do you mean "Minarae" from Super Monaco 2?
Yes, I used many team and driver names (including portraits) from SMGP 1 & 2 for my carset. SMGP was a great game in my youth and one of my favorite games for Sega Genesis / Mega Drive :D

I just use my green/white livery (evolving since 1996) instead of the late 80ies/early 90ies Minardi livery for it. In general I didn`t stick with the SMGP liveries or performance ratings :D
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Murilo67
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Re: Playability and realism of GP2 compared with today's games

Post by Murilo67 »

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rremedio wrote:
12.04.2021, 21:09
Murilo67 wrote:
12.04.2021, 16:39
What tools do you need to create a Formula 1 tire?
You need a graphics program to make the textures and then you need to build the jam files with them. If the textures have the same layout and size as the original ones, you can do it with GP2Edit. Otherwise, you're gonna need the Jam Editor.
the program editor052b jam it only works on the pc?
is because I currently need the tires for the 2007 Formula 1 season
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Re: Playability and realism of GP2 compared with today's games

Post by lhking74 »

I'm an old school sim racer and I too still have this game at the ready, on my new computer and even more recently on my android device. It's system requirements are so minimal and the mod comunity has so much available for it. But like every Geoff Crammond sim, nothing gives you the emersion factor, like the Grand Prix Series. Absolutely nothing!
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rremedio
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Re: Playability and realism of GP2 compared with today's games

Post by rremedio »

Murilo67 wrote:
14.04.2021, 07:26
[/img][/img]
rremedio wrote:
12.04.2021, 21:09
Murilo67 wrote:
12.04.2021, 16:39
What tools do you need to create a Formula 1 tire?
You need a graphics program to make the textures and then you need to build the jam files with them. If the textures have the same layout and size as the original ones, you can do it with GP2Edit. Otherwise, you're gonna need the Jam Editor.
the program editor052b jam it only works on the pc?
is because I currently need the tires for the 2007 Formula 1 season
Image
It is a Windows program, yes. I have no idea if it works on other platforms like wine or something like that.
"The Fox provides for himself. but God provides for the Lion"
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Murilo67
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Tires Formula one 2007

Post by Murilo67 »

AAS Can you still make the 2007 Formula One tires?
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