RPM Limits

Here you can post everything that fits in the topic "GP2 Screenshots & GP2 Patcher"
User avatar
rremedio
GP2 Legend
Posts: 1559
Joined: 14.01.2007, 15:05

Re: RPM Limits

Post by rremedio »

I can't upload a fixed version now. Try renaming your gp2.exe to GP2.EXE (caps lock on).

About your question, I can't tell it with sure, but there's a lot os stuff which will affect the engine. I've found a Power Curve and there's other factors which I believe to be Torque Curves. Also, I don't know yet how to change the Final Drive Ratio (you can make it in GP3). And the aerodinamical drag for these 1994 cars must affect high speeds also (keep in mind that the aerodinamical simulation in GP2 totally sucks).
"The Fox provides for himself. but God provides for the Lion"
Image
Early 90s F1 forever!
HF
GP2 Star
Posts: 1168
Joined: 08.09.2006, 16:14
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: RPM Limits

Post by HF »

Hey, if you have problems with uploading stuff send them to me and I'll do! ;-)
- . -
User avatar
rremedio
GP2 Legend
Posts: 1559
Joined: 14.01.2007, 15:05

Re: RPM Limits

Post by rremedio »

Thanks, but the reason I can't do it it's becouse I'm not at home right now.
"The Fox provides for himself. but God provides for the Lion"
Image
Early 90s F1 forever!
User avatar
TdK
GP2 Pro
Posts: 900
Joined: 11.12.2006, 20:16
Location: Netherlands

Re: RPM Limits

Post by TdK »

Michael82 wrote:Thank you for your program! I tried but there is an error with the GP2 path : GP2 unknown location.
Also, with the excel sheets I tried to lower values around 11000 rpm but maximum speed is 260 kph on a circuit like Monza, with 750 bhp. Is this normal? At the time of turbo in the 80's they were sometimes up to 340kph with 11500 rpm ...
Top speed in F1 these days is created by high revs, and power that is created at max. revs, about 750 hp.

In the 80's the engine revs were much lower because they could not make them run that fast, but because of turbo's the peak engine power was about 1500 hp in qualifying mode, and 1000 hp in race mode. A turbo doubles your normal engine power. Just like it does on a turbo charged street car.

Engines nowadays are completely different from construction as in the 80's. And just like Remedio says; torque, power and aerodynamic settings (somewhere hidden in Gp2) do a lot to topspeeds.
TdK - (re)tired GrandPrix 2 manic!
User avatar
rremedio
GP2 Legend
Posts: 1559
Joined: 14.01.2007, 15:05

Re: RPM Limits

Post by rremedio »

Yes, but Michael is not wrong. Less powerful engines with lower revs should achieve higher speeds than they get with my editor.

I've been playing with the Power Curve, but I still need to understand how GP2 works with it. I have some good results, but I need more to put it on a editor.

And even using the power curve there's the gear ratios problem. If you lower the max rev, GP2 will ask for longer gear ratios, in my test I use the max ratio and the engine still asks for more (6th gear with 74/64 ratio going at 300km/h - 12000 max rpm).

In GP3 it's easy to fix it but there's a part of GP3 physics which doesn't exist in GP2. There must be something similar in GP2, but I can't find it.

But in my opinion, the worst problem with using lower revs is the sound. It becomes terrible.

Here goes a "fixed" version of the editor (hopefully it won't complain about GP2 location) http://quickgp2.net46.net/files/GP2RPMEd_01b.zip
"The Fox provides for himself. but God provides for the Lion"
Image
Early 90s F1 forever!
User avatar
Michael82
GP2 Racer
Posts: 317
Joined: 16.10.2008, 15:20
Location: France
Contact:

Re: RPM Limits

Post by Michael82 »

I think I found the solution! Roberto, looking in your excel file I increased the values of "demora gear" (A22) (around 424) and also that of "power factor" (A27) (around 24728). With these values and about 750 bhp we approach the 330 kph at 11,000 rpm!
It is true that for the sound it is not very good. I would like help you.
User avatar
rremedio
GP2 Legend
Posts: 1559
Joined: 14.01.2007, 15:05

Re: RPM Limits

Post by rremedio »

Yes, I was playing with them too...those values help a lot, there's another one which also helps a little (don't remember it now).

I've had hopes that the power curve would allow me to use low max rev values (like 60ies cars), but it won't happen. The good news it's I have a better understanding of the Power Curve now. Just need a lot of crappy calculations to implement it on the editor.
"The Fox provides for himself. but God provides for the Lion"
Image
Early 90s F1 forever!
User avatar
TdK
GP2 Pro
Posts: 900
Joined: 11.12.2006, 20:16
Location: Netherlands

Re: RPM Limits

Post by TdK »

About the sound:
Can't we makes the sound files different with help of the Gp2 Carset editor? There you can extract and insert sounds. If we have a music/sound program that can alter the sound tone height?? :-k

@rremedio: I think you're discovering another secret of Gp2. I still believe Gp2 is as intelligent as Gp3, but it's more hidden/unused/or unlogical. But you certainly are doing a great job! =D>
TdK - (re)tired GrandPrix 2 manic!
User avatar
Greyhead
GP2 Star
Posts: 1160
Joined: 01.01.2007, 16:17
Location: Sheffield, England
Contact:

Re: RPM Limits

Post by Greyhead »

Seconded, as I've said before it's great that people are still discovering things about this game :D
Wander over to http://www.facebook.com/PixelDreamsGP2 and click "Like" for updates and screenshots from the world of PixelDreams!
User avatar
rremedio
GP2 Legend
Posts: 1559
Joined: 14.01.2007, 15:05

Re: RPM Limits

Post by rremedio »

TdK wrote:About the sound:
Can't we makes the sound files different with help of the Gp2 Carset editor? There you can extract and insert sounds. If we have a music/sound program that can alter the sound tone height?? :-k
I believe we can. GP3 has a nice editor which fix the sounds for the edited revs...it would be nice to have it on gp2 as well, but your solution is problaby easier to implement.
TdK wrote:@rremedio: I think you're discovering another secret of Gp2. I still believe Gp2 is as intelligent as Gp3, but it's more hidden/unused/or unlogical. But you certainly are doing a great job! =D>
Greyhead wrote:Seconded, as I've said before it's great that people are still discovering things about this game :D
Thank you guys. I think it's a bit strange that none of the GP2 hackers of the past have used this kind of stuff in their editors.

Comparing GP2 with GP3 there are two big flaws IMO. The aerodinamical problem in GP2 which makes you always run faster with low downforce, even in high downforce tracks. The other thing is the fact the GP3 has track banking fully implemented and I really miss it in GP2.

GP3 (and mainly GP3 2000) has also better AI, but you can live with that. GP3 2000 lets you have two different liveries for the same team, which is also nice.

Apart from that, GP3 is more fancy, nothing more. GP2 has more teams, two carshapes at the same time, it's easier on track development (becouse in seconds you test your work, edit, test again).

There are several GP3 physic factors which you won't find in GP2, but as TDK says, there are there in GP2, hidden somewhere.
"The Fox provides for himself. but God provides for the Lion"
Image
Early 90s F1 forever!
User avatar
rremedio
GP2 Legend
Posts: 1559
Joined: 14.01.2007, 15:05

Re: RPM Limits

Post by rremedio »

Did you guys test the editor?
"The Fox provides for himself. but God provides for the Lion"
Image
Early 90s F1 forever!
User avatar
TdK
GP2 Pro
Posts: 900
Joined: 11.12.2006, 20:16
Location: Netherlands

Re: RPM Limits

Post by TdK »

rremedio wrote:Did you guys test the editor?
Not yet, i promise i test it tomorrow when i have some more spare time... O:)
TdK - (re)tired GrandPrix 2 manic!
User avatar
TdK
GP2 Pro
Posts: 900
Joined: 11.12.2006, 20:16
Location: Netherlands

Re: RPM Limits

Post by TdK »

rremedio wrote:Did you guys test the editor?
My test results:
I've used the NL² 2000 carset (WIP) on the Estoril track (WIP) in slot 1. Engine power: 840 Hp.

First i higherd the RPM limits to; Rev. limit: 17800, Max. RPM: 17300 (Pretty logical for the year 2000). :wink:

Second, i changed the RPM light to: 1, 9300 | 2, 10300 | 3, 10900 | 4, 11200. Lights work fine! :)

Then i viewed a lap, and noticed that the rpm has changed! (see picture). But sadly no changes in top speed (yet).
Image

I did some changes to gear ratios, and the "demora_gear" (which can be translated to "final gear/differential") but this didn't gave the wanted results. So i changed the "power_factor". Original 15728/15500 (old max. revs) x 17800 (new max. revs) = 18062. Now the cars run faster at top speed! with higher revs, and believe it or not! GOOD SOUND! Listen to the attachment. It even sounds higher! :D (Or i must be wrong.... :? )

For roberto: The editor works good, but needs 2 extra values within it. The "demora_gear" and the "power factor".

But i guess the power factor is something you can calculate from the revs. Just like i did. If you have lower revs., just like Michael82, you can use the formula the other way around. So: 15500/11000 (80's revs.) = 1.41 x 15728 = 22175. But i did not test this, but i believe it works! =D> \:D/

P.s.: As you might noticed i got the sheet working. Previous problems i had where caused by an old version of Excel installed on my PC. Just for your information.
Attachments
Gp2 17300 revs.zip
(696.54 KiB) Downloaded 520 times
TdK - (re)tired GrandPrix 2 manic!
User avatar
rremedio
GP2 Legend
Posts: 1559
Joined: 14.01.2007, 15:05

Re: RPM Limits

Post by rremedio »

Wow, thank you very much for the info, Tim! I'll update the editor as soon as possible. I'll make some tests with your formula and try to discover a little more about the "demora_gear" factor. You, Michael and me all agree about those two factors being important and they wil make the editor more useful even before we can implement the Power Curve.

I can say that if I find a factor which changes the braking force of the car we would have everything we need to create nice physics (even if not that much accurate) for any kind of car. The problem is there are about 1600 unknown physic factors I've found (and there must be more factors hidden in the exe). GP2 is really complicated!

So I'll add demora_gear (with a decent name), power factor, aerodinamical efficiency, polar moment of inertia and upshift penalty to the next version of the editor. To be released in the upcoming days.

Can anyone tell me if the editor works in Vista? If it works it will be a good base for the next Slot Editor (no c++, no .net framework or any other download required).
"The Fox provides for himself. but God provides for the Lion"
Image
Early 90s F1 forever!
User avatar
TdK
GP2 Pro
Posts: 900
Joined: 11.12.2006, 20:16
Location: Netherlands

Re: RPM Limits

Post by TdK »

rremedio wrote:try to discover a little more about the "demora_gear" factor.
If you lower this value, cars take longer to reach their topspeed, which is slightly higher. If you higher this value, cars reach their topspeed faster, but it's much lower. So, i really do believe this is the final gear ratio, i don't know the exact word, but i think you can call it "differential ratio". Because it makes more sense.

lets say that 300 needs to be 3.00. This make a ratio of 3.00:1. So 3 revs of the gearboxoutput shaft means 1 rotation of the wheels. So a lower x.xx:1 value, example: 2.00:1, means less loss in rotations, but needs more power for acceleration and topspeed. This is one on one with the value in the sheet/magic Gp2 value (demora_gear). a lower value gives slower acceleration, but more topspeed, higher values give better acceleration, but low topspeeds. :wink:

rremedio wrote: ..."upshift penalty"...
What is that? Does this mean; "to many high revs, damages your engine?" :-s

For information: I use Win XP, SP3. Editor works fine. Maybe AAS can test the editor? As far as i know he uses Win Vista! O:)
TdK - (re)tired GrandPrix 2 manic!
Post Reply