Grip: two issues

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samsepi0l
GP2 Gamer
Posts: 153
Joined: 01.03.2019, 01:39

Re: Grip: two issues

Post by samsepi0l »

Guys- I am not as skilled as you, but I modify the carsets that I download- so I want to ask you this.

*are you referring to the "range" when you go to the little "helmet" icon in GP2edit?

When I play my game- I use a much tighter window of values so that the front of the field and the back of the field are closer together. I know it's not historically realistic, but it make the game more interesting because the slower cars are more competitive. I use the same value for the "range" for everyone.

For example, I am racing a 2001 season now. Here are the values I have. Can you please comment?
(I am only using 26 of the cars, 2 cars are disabled)

Image
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2001_range.jpg
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MaxX
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Location: Salzburg, Austria

Re: Grip: two issues

Post by MaxX »

rremedio wrote:
29.05.2021, 22:38
Wow! That's very nice!

So this confirms it works like in the later games where the RG is a range that goes both ways.

I'm a little surprised tho since I've never found actual grip values that were higher than the driver's grip when supervising the memory during the races. That value is probably stored in one of the many unknown sections.

Also very surprised nobody ever noticed that pattern with the original grips and grip ranges before. Well done! All of this makes total sense if you think about it since the grip range becomes more important than the driver's grip when there are such big grip range values like in the original game and the top drivers are on the top most of the time anyway.
Seconded, awesome findings. tbh, I haven`t thought in that way so far :D
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samsepi0l
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Joined: 01.03.2019, 01:39

Re: Grip: two issues

Post by samsepi0l »

sorry to interrupt - but do you think that I've accomplished my goals with the numbers I use?
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rremedio
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Re: Grip: two issues

Post by rremedio »

samsepi0l wrote:
30.05.2021, 05:18
Guys- I am not as skilled as you, but I modify the carsets that I download- so I want to ask you this.

*are you referring to the "range" when you go to the little "helmet" icon in GP2edit?

When I play my game- I use a much tighter window of values so that the front of the field and the back of the field are closer together. I know it's not historically realistic, but it make the game more interesting because the slower cars are more competitive. I use the same value for the "range" for everyone.

For example, I am racing a 2001 season now. Here are the values I have. Can you please comment?
(I am only using 26 of the cars, 2 cars are disabled)

Image
The range values are the ones in the screenshot to the right (1500 for most drivers in the picture).

In the case of your carset, when starting a session the game will generate a random number for each driver between -750 and 750 (1500/2) and add that generated number to the appropriate grip (R-Grip or Q-Grip, depending on the session). The result will be the actual grip value during the session.

For a modern F1 season, I think 1500 may be too big of a value, but not sure about 2001 without looking back at the results. With all cars having 1500 range you are basically giving 60-70% of them a chance of winning a race or being last. But since your grip values are all somewhat close together, it may help spread the cars a little bit so they are not all racing a few tenths from each other all the time (which is not as fun as it sounds in road racing).
"The Fox provides for himself. but God provides for the Lion"
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Early 90s F1 forever!
roland ratzenberger
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Re: Grip: two issues

Post by roland ratzenberger »

TdK wrote:
29.05.2021, 19:15
Well in the past 10 years in my absence of Gp2 i discovered something about the random grip:

It works both ways. If the Random Grip is 0, the driver will always produce about the same lap time.
If you give a driver Random Grip range of 938 (Schumacher '94 Microprose), it's grip will be between 15915 and 16853. His standard grip is 16384.
So he can perform better, and worse. Previously i thought it only worked negative. But as it turns out, it works positive as well. So the 938 value is a value effecting the 16384 level. Positive and negative.

Also i discovered that only Schumacher's Random Grip matters: The Random Grip (RG) of the other drivers are calculated from his Grip values.
An Example 1994 Microprose values:

GRIP: RG:
Schumacher: 16384 938
Hill: 15980 1342
Alesi: 15468 1854
Belmondo: 13846 3738

Maybe if you are very very sharp you will notice it already. Hill his RG is calculated from the difference in grip between Schumacher and him. The calculation goes like this: 16384 - 15980 = 404. 404 + 938 = 1342. Alesi the same: 16384 - 15468 + 938 = 1854. Belmondo: 16384 - 13846 + 938 = 3738.

I discoverd this only just last years summer. And i implemented it within my 2020 carset, with a few deviations, and it seems to work perfect. In the meantime i tested it on other seasons\years and it works fine. It maybe even works better than what i first used as RG values, each driver it's own random grip, instead of reflecting/feeding it back to the fastest driver. You can always higher or lower the RG value, like i did in my 2020 carset as well, to get a more realistic result with some drivers.

If you want i can upload some carsets with the new data regarding to Random Grip. I personally believe this is how it should be, and it works better.

Commenting on that 16384 is the highest grip: as it turns out now, some drivers will exceed that grip number. And if you give a driver a higher than 16384 level, they are hard to beat, you need to have more horsepower than them to beat them. But that can also be solved, or 'tuned' by adjusting the "Grip Factor" to a lower number in the "Car Settings" menu in Gp2Edit. With this only the player gets more grip. A little fine-tune value within Gp2.
if you dont mind mate , please if you can upload some. the last 4 years i always manipulate carsets values etc, and what a better <<lesson>> than to have some of yours carset which i believe are the cream of the crop as guidance :D :D
ismael
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Re: Grip: two issues

Post by ismael »

I'm so amazed by this TdK post that I'll issue a question only to a part of this, leaving this rest for later (if ever).
TdK wrote:
29.05.2021, 19:15
Well in the past 10 years in my absence of Gp2 i discovered something about the random grip:

It works both ways. If the Random Grip is 0, the driver will always produce about the same lap time.
If you give a driver Random Grip range of 938 (Schumacher '94 Microprose), it's grip will be between 15915 and 16853. His standard grip is 16384.
So he can perform better, and worse. Previously i thought it only worked negative. But as it turns out, it works positive as well. So the 938 value is a value effecting the 16384 level. Positive and negative.
This is surely the biggest breakthrough in "GP2 Science" for some 20 years! Are you sure about this? How did you find out?
How do we calculate what 'grip' a human driver can reach? Are we to drop the 16100? Is 16100 valid only for a decent race trim for 50% or 100% Race Distance, without using ultra-low ride height which would render a permanent penalty for the human driver after a few laps - in which case the grip would be something like 17000?
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