GP of Monaco

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HF
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GP of Monaco

Post by HF »

Hey m8s.
Did you notice a drive throught for Massa in the race? In TV it was seeable that he had crodded the pit lane when he left the pit lane.... And why did Schumacher got this penalty? Isn't there a passage in teh rules-book that you are allowed to race after the SC-line 1? Ah this fu*ing FerrarI Assistants...
- . -

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Re: GP of Monaco

Post by Klon »

HF wrote:Hey m8s.
Did you notice a drive throught for Massa in the race? In TV it was seeable that he had crodded the pit lane when he left the pit lane.... And why did Schumacher got this penalty? Isn't there a passage in teh rules-book that you are allowed to race after the SC-line 1? Ah this fu*ing FerrarI Assistants...
Ah, if you go with conspiracys, why not look at the Guest Steward for this race :mrgreen:

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Greyhead
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Re: GP of Monaco

Post by Greyhead »

Regarding Schumacher: apparently there's a clause in the rules that says that, if the safety car pulls in on the last lap, then the race is still deemed to have finished under safety car conditions. I didn't know about that particular rule myself, Martin Brundle on the BBC (a man who knows his stuff) didn't know about it, in fact nobody but the FIA seemed to know about it! Faintly reminiscent of the "5mm tolerance" rule that came out of nowhere following Ferrari's disqualification in Sepang in 1999.

And Massa did indeed appear to cross the pit-exit line, I saw it too.
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Re: GP of Monaco

Post by MaxX »

Very strange, it was a nice move of MSC and I don`t understand the hard punishment. If there really is a rule flashing out nobody knew before a position switching with ALO would have been much more fitting due I don`t see any unfair driving or advantage gaining in that action. ALO`s tires where simply exhausted after nearly the whole race distance and he didn`t expect a maneuver. I wonder what would have happened if ALO did that on the Mercedes ;)

Thirded on the Massa thingie

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AAS
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Re: GP of Monaco

Post by AAS »

HF wrote:And why did Schumacher got this penalty?
Why did Schumacher got this penalty for this spectacular move?
Revenge is sweet!

Guest Stewards should be impartial.
Ridiculous teenie-weenie revenge. Image
And Massa did indeed appear to cross the pit-exit line, I saw it too.
Punishable! But ...........

Edit:
Interesting Discussion in other forums:
"Alonso should have got a penalty also for overtaking HRT under yellow flags. 2/78"
But ...........

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Re: GP of Monaco

Post by jakesanson »

It's interesting, but I do think he deserved the penalty. His excuse was that the safety car was peeling off at the end of the lap, so racing would go green. That doesn't apply if it's the last lap.

I think he was right to be penalised, and it's proof once again that Shcumy likes to bend, stretch and rip up the rulebook whenever he feels like it.

Sure he'll feel sour grapes knowing that Damon Hill was a race steward, but I think it's fair he was penalised.

And on Ferrari, oh come on guys, you weren't expecting Ferrari to ever get a penalty for cheating in F1 ever again, were you???!?!! Not when they have the FIA wrapped round their steering wheels!!!
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AAS
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Re: GP of Monaco

Post by AAS »

But there are some inconsistencies. With the green flags and the rules.

unfortunately in german: http://www.racingblog.de/2010/05/16/f1- ... #more-5923

“Track Clear” - 40.13:” and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.” - yellow flags = penalty OK
“Track Clear” - 40.13:” and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.” - green flags = Race director/marshalls fault. No penalty

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Re: GP of Monaco

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HF
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Re: GP of Monaco

Post by HF »

Never the less there is one thing: The flag-assistant-system (Marshal-Lights) flashed GREEN after the SC-line 1 which is on the straight between turn 16 and 17. So if you cross a traffic light which is green what will you do? And what will you do if the police stops you and says: You weren't allowed to cross this traffic light?
- . -

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Gabriele
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Re: GP of Monaco

Post by Gabriele »

The light flashing green means that the track is clear, not that you are allowed to overtake...
2010 sporting regulations, rule 40.11 - As the safety car is approaching the pit entry the yellow flags and SC boards will be withdrawn and replaced by waved green flags with green lights at the Line. These will be displayed until the last car crosses the Line. This adding, with, rule 40.13 - If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.

Call me biased, but I don't see anything "spectacular" on this move, it's just another MS-bending-of-the-rules thing. And, as a Ferrari fan, I saw many of these.

I don't see the point also in doing an "anti-Ferrari crusade" just for that, but you know, life's beautiful because we all NOT think the same way! :wink:
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Greyhead
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Re: GP of Monaco

Post by Greyhead »

I think the reason people are getting worked up about it is that not many of us had heard of rule 40.13 until it was actually applied! OK, so it's the drivers and teams job to know the rules and if they don't (or if they do and break them anyway), that's their problem. But if we as fans don't know about it, that's how conspiracy theories start. The rule must have been there from the start of the season but if we don't know about it, we lose faith in the rulemakers. I certainly didn't know about rule 40.13 until Schumacher's penalty for transgressing it was applied, and nobody I know knew of it either!
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Gabriele
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Re: GP of Monaco

Post by Gabriele »

I agree with you, Greyhead.
On F1 Italian commentary it has been always pointed out that a driver cannot overtake until the start/finish line, after the SC pulls out, so that's why I was pretty sure that this rule must have been written somewhere, and I was pretty worried about everyone forgetting it! ...but now I know why, this rule was mostly unknown.

And Massa deserved the penalty too. In my opinion, the fact that he didn't take so much advantage crossing the pit exit line, it's not a good reason not to penalize him. The fact is, the marshals should have rules to BE or to BE NOT respected, i.e. if you crossed the line, you're penalized, it does not matter if you're 5 laps ahead or 5 laps behind, if you're fighting for position or alone on the track. Marshals have the power to decide if a rule should be applied or not, and how. That's not fair.
That means Massa should not cross the pit line, Hamilton should not change direction 2 or 3 times to avoid being overtaken and Branson should cut his hair short... oh, wait, am I wrong with something? :)
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Greyhead
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Re: GP of Monaco

Post by Greyhead »

Gabriele wrote: That means Massa should not cross the pit line, Hamilton should not change direction 2 or 3 times to avoid being overtaken and Branson should cut his hair short... oh, wait, am I wrong with something? :)
:lol:

Branson should indeed get a bloody hair cut! And shave off that silly beard too!
On British TV a couple of years ago we had a very disturbing advert featuring a computer-generated Branson in a nurse's outfit. Scary stuff indeed...
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Re: GP of Monaco

Post by jakesanson »

I feel that justice has been done, as the safety car rules are clearly different when the race ENDS behind a safety car.

It was a good call.
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AD
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Re: GP of Monaco

Post by AD »

In my opinion, the rules (with 40.11 defining the general case and 40.13 defining a special case) are indicative enough that the teams could give the right instructions to their drivers - and the stewards had grounds for deciding the way they did. Rule 40.13 explains that even though the safety car enters the pit lane at the end of the final lap, no overtaking is permitted until the finish line. The obvious meaning being that the race shall, in fact, finish under safety car conditions. (Arguably, removing the safety car from the top of the field before the finish is, then, merely done to avoid the race winner being photographed taking the flag behind the safety car.)

Under these circumstances, however, I think it was somewhat irritating that green flags were displayed beyond the safety car line. If safety car conditions are still supposed to apply until the finish, keeping the yellow flags and the "SC" boards out would have seemed appropriate to me instead. Actually, it was even done that way before, as some blogs recounted by now, at the end of the Melbourne race last year (which, notably, did not have the recent rule in place with overtaking generally permitted from the SC line already).

The most reasonable reaction to this incident, in my opinion, would therefore be to add to 40.13 that in that specific case of the race being finished under SC conditions, yellow will (continue to) be displayed until the finish.
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