How to improve modern F1: Pre-Quali

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bb49
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How to improve modern F1: Pre-Quali

Post by bb49 » 02.04.2017, 16:49

Okay, so there's been a lot of talk around lately about how to 'improve' F1

I recently had an idea that came to me with the whole Wehrlein / Giovinazzi situation, How could they both, along with Ericsson, drive for Sauber this year, without Sauber having to bring 3 cars to each race (too costly)?

Imagine if the top three teams in the constructors championship of the previous season raced two drivers as currently, that would be Merc, Ferrari and RB

The middle FOUR teams, would bring THREE drivers to each weekend, so this year, that would be Force India, Williams, McLaren and Toro Rosso

The bottom THREE team would bring FOUR drivers to each weekend, meaning, Renault, Haas and Sauber

On Saturday morning the Williams three drivers, Massa, Stroll and perhaps di Resta, would do a pre-qualifying, and the fastest two of that session go into ordinary qualifying, and the slowest driver eliminated (for that weekend). The three SFI, Toro Rosso and McLaren drivers would also battle it out. Then Sauber would have four drivers, Wehrlein, Ericsson, Giovinazzi, and perhaps Nasr, would battle it our (on Saturday morning), and the two fastest drivers graduate to regular qualifying, same for Haas and Renault.

This would increase the spectacle of F1, especially the spectacle of Qualifying. This would turn Saturday morning practice from a meaningless (for spectators) pre-race preparation, into an exciting do-or-die shoot-out for junior drivers in smaller teams and would make the whole F1 weekend exciting. The structure would also mean landing a seat at a top team would be even more prestigious, because a driver would then earn a guaranteed twenty races, and would be reserved for only the very best of drivers.

This would also increase the F1 driver pool from 20 to 30, yet it would increase the quality of drivers because of the format. If you can't out-qualify your team-mates, you don't get to race!

racer63
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Re: How to improve modern F1: Pre-Quali

Post by racer63 » 03.04.2017, 02:34

One main problem, mostly for small teams $$$$$$$ They would need more mechanics a third track engineer and more costly car logistics etc etc. I think years ago some team run three cars but was in another time, another F1 era.

ismael
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Re: How to improve modern F1: Pre-Quali

Post by ismael » 05.04.2017, 22:44

The idea is very interesting and worth of a good debate!

It's not practical due to costs to the smaller teams. In the current scenario, it would be more logical for the top three teams to set-up a third car and allow 2 or 3 junior drivers to compete in it for a place in the race, each Saturday. That would be a thing to watch.

***

When I was a kid, there were 2 questions that I couldn't answer because it was before I had large access to press, I only got racing from TV: why F3000 wasn't called F2 (they are solving this now, 25 years later) and I thought that the winners of F3000 were promoted to F1 just like in football, and the worst of F1 would be relegated to F3000.

This is too harsh because you must have the chance to hire whoever you want. Kimi Raikkonen and Max Verstappen were straight from the Third Division to the Premier League. But there should exist a system to, automatically and legally, reward GP2 winners, and it could be something like that, a pre-qualifying.


I guess most of us think about the days of 34 cars and 14 teams, and at least the 28 cars we find in GP2, but that's not the ideal, either. Balanced sport should be something like football, were the smaller teams have some chance to compete, somehow. I'm Portuguese and no one remembers Pedro Matos Chaves in Coloni in 1991; he took a chance and a risk in a team with 10 people when McLaren and Williams had 200 people. Having amateur teams is not the way. The likes of Manor and Caterham are the opposite; super-professional teams that don't get results nor profit.

I think we must wait for 2021 and the new engine regulations, new profit distributions, and so on. Something like the English Premier League, what they decided 25 years ago, and got a balanced and vibrant football league, unlike the Spanish one, which is very much like F1: There's Mercedes and Ferrari, there's a Red Bull in Athletic Madrid and then a bunch of others.

Yes, we've been waiting for that AND the return of slip-stream racing for 20 years now, so let's wait another 3 or 4 years....


That's another great thing of playing GP2. We can get slip-stream, and we can follow another car without destroying the tires!!

bb49
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Re: How to improve modern F1: Pre-Quali

Post by bb49 » 06.04.2017, 06:00

There's no need for a third car... they just have three or four drivers in their team, and they take turns qualifying the SAME CAR and the two who set the fastest times go into normal qualifying and into the race... So any team need not bring more cars to the tracks. We know they drove the same car, so any differences is all down to the driver.

I know there's issues with it such as Driver Wages and Car set up - is the car set to suit driver A or driver B, but that's the minor issue.

As things are currently (and have always been) spectators really don't get anything from most of the sessions. The free practice sessions on Friday and Saturday don't count for anything, just another chance for pay drivers to damage the cars :lol:

Imagine instead, from the get-go on Saturday morning, Junior drivers are out there in smaller teams like Sauber, taking turns in the car, trying to earn their spot in the race. F1 fans would see 10 - 14 potential stars of the future driving furiously to earn their place.
In the mid-afternoon, middle ranking drivers in middle teams are battling it out to earn their spot in the race, though not as many. I could give the example of Toro Rosso, if they bring Kvyat, Sainz, say, Gasly, the three of them compete for two spots in the race, and Force India take Ocon, Perez, and for example, Di Resta, and the three of them battle it out (taking turns in two cars, of course) and then late afternoon we have that hour session as we do now, where the big boys (Ferrari, McLaren) put in the hot laps.

After all, they want us to pay to watch F1 these days. But we're only really paying for
a) one hour of quali and
b) two hours of race

bb49
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Re: How to improve modern F1: Pre-Quali

Post by bb49 » 06.04.2017, 06:19

ismael wrote:The idea is very interesting and worth of a good debate!

It's not practical due to costs to the smaller teams. In the current scenario, it would be more logical for the top three teams to set-up a third car and allow 2 or 3 junior drivers to compete in it for a place in the race, each Saturday. That would be a thing to watch.

***

When I was a kid, there were 2 questions that I couldn't answer because it was before I had large access to press, I only got racing from TV: why F3000 wasn't called F2 (they are solving this now, 25 years later) and I thought that the winners of F3000 were promoted to F1 just like in football, and the worst of F1 would be relegated to F3000.
I actually think that's a great idea! Perhaps on Saturday morning, Ferrari, Merc and Red Bull bring a third car, perhaps an old car from the previous year? The junior drivers take turns in it, see who does the fastest lap, and the quickest three? perhaps? get to drive that weekend in the bottom teams, or something like that.

After all, Merc is paying for Wehrlein to be at Sauber. These big manufacturers want to give time in the car to their junior drivers so they get experience, and so they can evaluate them.

Perhaps there should be a system where the top three drivers of last seasons F2 (GP2/F3000) and the top European F3 driver are brought in.

You've made an excellent, very pertinent point. There are fast drivers in F2/GP2, which is described as a 'feeder series' into F1. There should be a system that links the best drivers of that series to F1, otherwise it really isn't a 'feeder' series, and people like Valsechhi, Fabio Lemer and even Alex Rossi are left on the scrap-heap.

----
Rest assured, F1 has come a long way since the days of Coloni and Pedro Chaves. Teams no loner change drivers every couple of races and the gap between first and last has closed up, though mainly through loss of smaller teams.

I still think 'pre-qualifying' is essential to the future of F1; after all, in the days before GP2Edit, wasn't one of the best things about playing GP2 seeing if the Pacific could actually out-qualify the Simtek :wink: It happened in like once every tenth race but it was always like 'woo-hoo!'

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GP2tifoso28
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Re: How to improve modern F1: Pre-Quali

Post by GP2tifoso28 » 06.04.2017, 07:08

What I think they need to do is allow for customer cars for wildcard entries. So for example if Maldonado can get the funding to enter a race and 'lease' a car from Ferrari or whoever then Ferrari provide the car and technical support while Maldonado and his sponsors pay the bill. In the off chance all 3 Ferrari's score points then the top 2 cars register the constructors points, not all 3. They would need to say for example all teams can field at least one wildcard per GP with a maximum limit of 6 GP's per individual driver per season. It would be a good way to introduce new drivers and sponsors to the sport and increase grid numbers. Similar things happen quite regularly in motogp

bb49
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Re: How to improve modern F1: Pre-Quali

Post by bb49 » 06.04.2017, 07:26

GP2tifoso28 wrote:What I think they need to do is allow for customer cars for wildcard entries. So for example if Maldonado can get the funding to enter a race and 'lease' a car from Ferrari or whoever then Ferrari provide the car and technical support while Maldonado and his sponsors pay the bill. In the off chance all 3 Ferrari's score points then the top 2 cars register the constructors points, not all 3. They would need to say for example all teams can field at least one wildcard per GP with a maximum limit of 6 GP's per individual driver per season. It would be a good way to introduce new drivers and sponsors to the sport and increase grid numbers. Similar things happen quite regularly in motogp
That's a good idea because the people who already have enough money to run a car would be entering, and it would be a way of teams to generate money. It's better than having ca$h strapped teams like Forti and Andrea Moda coming in and drivers like Perry McCarthy and Pedro Chaves never getting a chance to show what they're really capable of.

But with Maldonado behind the wheel of the car, someone would need to hire a lot of mechanics! ](*,) ](*,) :dumppc:

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