Making GP2 more realistic with the correct values

[MaxX]

Hi guys, I`ve some questions concerning making GP2 more realistic. I know that some parts where already posted, but I wasn`t able to find it with the search function.

1) AI Car skills:
I know that there are some formulas to calculate real laptimes to adapt this to GP2. Does somebody know the exact formula? But that`s not my main clause, I know that when I have the fastest car bith 800 bhp and 16100 grip I have him almost equally (slightly faster) as fast as the fastest driver in the original game.

2) Player car grip:
But does it make sense to calculate real laptimes when the game gets easier or harder, depending on the result? I think this issue could be fixed with the player`s car grip which should also be adapted in the carset to have equal chances and realistic laptimes. But how is the player`s car grip calculated? I also love to race for slower teams for a good challenge, but I only can limit it with the horsepower, which isn`t the best solution. A HRT will have an identical grip to a Ferrari, only 100 bhp less to keep it tricky (doesn`t work at tracks like Monaco, where I once won a race with a 600 bhp car on ace mode). It would be amazing to make this with the fitting player`s car grip
I also race with non-stop strategy and pit normaly to have a disadvantage, but when the car gets lighter my laptimes are increasing and the gap to the team-mate is again 2-3 seconds per lap (depending on car and track, of course)

3) DNF formula:
Does it make sense to raise failure prob in shorter races? Does anyone have the exat formula for calculation? I think it was something round in 100 races 80 will be a failure with the maxed value

4) Are there any other ideas to make racing more realistic?

[rremedio]

Questions 1, 2 and 4: You won't be able to find a grip value which makes the races easier or harder and you won't be able to create a formula for correct laptimes becouse of some reasons:

1. CCline quality is not uniform between tracks and bad ccline gives unfair amount to the player over the ccs.
2. CCs are faster in some types or corners than others (compared to the player)
3. GP2 is configured with Magic Data for all slots. This means clock speed, opposition speed level, and fuel consumption are correct only for the original 16 tracks in their correct slot. Any other track you put there (even if you configure the fuel load in the track editor) won't be as fair as the original tracks.

You can change the player grip for each track, but you'll have problems if you are too fast and your car will handle too differently in most tracks, so I think you won't find "magic numbers" working in every track.

IMO, the only way to create fair races is using the Slot Editor for every track you drive. Maybe it lacks some tutorial on how to work out the magic data, that's my fault, but I can try to help.

Recently I made a nice experiment. I've configured the magic data for my Curitiba track so I was as fast as the cars with 750bhp (same as mine) at 16384 cc grip. Then I've changed my car to a slower car (don't remember the bhp) and changed a hidden GP2 parameter called "Player Grip" which is 16384 by default to 14950. I was amazed to see I was lapping the same times as the cc from the same team, who has 14950 as cc grip.

Question 3: There was this post by TDK

First off all:
The maximum for reliability is 16384. You can find out why in the orginal carset. There all the
values are made from 16384.

For an example:
Benetton/williams: 2048 = 4 times a failure = 512 for 1 failure
McLaren = 6656 / 512 = 13

32 x 512 = 16384
Every failure a car has is 1. when a race starts you have 2 cars in a team. So, there are 16 races:
16 x 2 = 32
32 x 512 = 16384 --> the max. value. Which means 100% unreliable...
So; In one season of 16 races, a team (2 cars each race, which makes 2x16 races=32) suffers 10 failures. Then you will get a failure rate off: 16384/32=512 x 10 failures = 5120

Now: When a car is set to 2048, it will suffer failure around 4 times in a season. So this can be 3 times, but also 5 times.
When a value is set at 16384, the max. failures in a season is 32. But they never do this!!! Mostly about 25 times...

Values set above 16384, won't have the same effect. I've tested it some years ago. Settings higher than 16384 will give strange results. Some cars won't have more than 10 failure's, and cars set (just) under 16384 will failure a lot more. Let's say about 25 times...

So as a summary:
The game is not made for failure ranges above 16384. It's not designed for it. Sure, you can try it out, but it will give strange effects.

Try to set a drivers random grip to the max.: 32767. The car will be fast around corners like hell!!!
What it's not supposed to do! It's high random grip should slow the driver down....

Look at the complete topic here with more information given by TDK, but nothing about shorter races, but I think you should decrease the number of laps in track editor and make 100 races, so the GP2Edit values will work the same as in complete races.

[rremedio]

There is a nice trick for modern F1 races. In 2009 they used to publish car weight from the end of the qualifying. With those values and the pitstop laps in the races, you can calculate the fuel weight "lost" in each lap. With that value in mind you may adjust the "fuel load" in the track editor so the cars will have the same weights than the real cars if they have similar pit strategies. I had the correct value to configure the tracks for 2009, but I don't remember it. Have to calculate it again. But the test files from this topic were made with the correct calculations.

[MaxX]

Thank you, I`ll consider that

[honkysponky]

Recently I made a nice experiment. I've configured the magic data for my Curitiba track so I was as fast as the cars with 750bhp (same as mine) at 16384 cc grip. Then I've changed my car to a slower car (don't remember the bhp) and changed a hidden GP2 parameter called "Player Grip" which is 16384 by default to 14950. I was amazed to see I was lapping the same times as the cc from the same team, who has 14950 as cc grip.

Where can you edit "Player Grip"?

[nimrod111]

Recently I made a nice experiment. I've configured the magic data for my Curitiba track so I was as fast as the cars with 750bhp (same as mine) at 16384 cc grip. Then I've changed my car to a slower car (don't remember the bhp) and changed a hidden GP2 parameter called "Player Grip" which is 16384 by default to 14950. I was amazed to see I was lapping the same times as the cc from the same team, who has 14950 as cc grip.

Where can you edit "Player Grip"?

Clicking the button "Car Settings" in Gp2ed32; on the left, you will see the player's car settings.

[Life Racing Engines]

But there aren't numbers like 16384 in gp2ed32 Car Settings, only the grip factor. Does somebody know what cc grip value is about the same as human player's default 198 or do they even work the same way?

[honkysponky]

Thanks @nimrod111
But I knew this option before.
Common there must something "better" to edit

Matti Laitinen's "Gepsitor2 - The Grand Prix 2 Editor" has two interesting things to edit, polar moment of inertia, downforce efficiency.

Maybe the player's grip can be edited by the downforce efficiency.

[rremedio]

There's no editor available to edit the "player grip", I do it via hex editor. I may include it on the Physics Editor. You can also change it track by track using command 0xdd (not sure if they are really the same thing, but old patcher did think yes).

[rremedio]

Maybe the player's grip can be edited by the downforce efficiency.

It works for all cars, including the ccs.

[honkysponky]

Okay thanks.
Including this option in the magic editor would be great.

[rremedio]

But there aren't numbers like 16384 in gp2ed32 Car Settings, only the grip factor. Does somebody know what cc grip value is about the same as human player's default 198 or do they even work the same way?

I think about that car grip factor (198) as some tyre related factor and I use it to set the driving feeling but not to compensate cc speed or difficult level. If you use a lower value (more grip), you can compensate raising the cc grips until the ccs reach or speed, or change the magic data to improve cc performance.

I understand people want an easy, simple and fast way to make their races competitive, but Microprose screwed it when they included magic data in the game. But doing it was probably simplier than making advanced AI and better tracks. And the game turned out so good.

[rremedio]

Okay thanks.
Including this option in the magic editor would be great.

I will make it in the future. But I remember you that the Slot Editor has tools enough to make any race, with any carset competitive. And tracks with bad cclines will always have problems.

[Life Racing Engines]

Thanks for the information, rremedio. I tested adding the mentioned commands on a track but that really would be a great addition for the magic editor. Of course we can already edit many things using gp2edit, track editor and that great magic data editor.

[Mad_Troyden]

I'm working on it.
Now I use Excel for analyse the driver and car performance.
I analyse qualification times to count a differencce of team drivers.
I'll analyse past,when the drivers,who are now in different teams,
were in one team,to count teams performance.
So,I have so few data about a race grip,only last lap in Abu Dhabi by F1LiveTiming
I have some counts about comparing of GP2 and real values.
For example, I think that one car failure in 20 races is equal on 517 CarFlrProb points.
Some thoughts about make this system more dynamic is here:viewtopic.php?f=5&t=623
But this system must depends from experience.And 'Random Grip' depends from it too.
Sorry for bad English.