Hi guys, how are you. I'm having a problem with A1 Ring circuit for about 20 years and i'd like to know if someone can help me.
I'm simulating late 90s seasons and one of the tracks is A1 Ring. There are some different versions of this track available made from diferrent people, but I always find the same problem: I can not perform well at turn 2/Remus, the uphill hairpin.
Because of the bumps, I either lost a lot of time or spin (or both). I play with keyboards, with limits the possibles lines.
Does anyone know how to overcome this or have a alternative version of this track without the bumps?
Thank you.
A1 Ring - Remus turn
Re: A1 Ring - Remus turn
I had the exact same problem on the exact same track and I'll let you know how I solved it.
first - why?
GP2 seems to have been written so height transitions during steering events create a great understeer or oversteer. I think this is a little exaggerated and it not so prevalent in real life. Examples of this are:
1) Original San Marino - the right after aqua minarale
2) Original Portugal - the tight Gancho corner complex
3) Original Spain - the left after the first corner
4) A1 ring Remus corner you are talking about
5) Original Hungary - turn 5 (the slight left)
6) Original France - Adelaide hairpin
anyways...
There are basically 2 ways you can deal with this. You can either try and adjust the car settings to deal with it- which I think is very unrealistic because if you give your steering wheel too much input the car will still almost always spin. (I race with a wheel and pedals). So you have to be almost instinctive to NOT put in too much steering input- for me this is somewhat unacceptable. In situations like Hungary, Imola, Spain- it isn't that bad. In situations like A1 ring it is terrible.
So- what I did for A1 ring was I very slightly adjusted the track heights in track editor. This was not as easy as it seems.
First- you have to get the start and finish accumulated heights to be about the same- otherwise it will give a huge bump effect when you cross the S/F line.
Second- through many trials and errors I learned that GP2 heights are not so exact. Let me explain. I spent hours making mistakes before I figured this out. Lets use Remus for example. Lets say you load Remus in the track editor and see that there is a slight height gradient in the corner right near the apex is. You say to yourself "I will simply make this gradient less and it should fix the problem" right? When you make an adjustment, then you try the track and the problem still exists. Here is the reason why- The transition causing the problem was one of the next sections- on the straight! If you make that gradient less- it will change the abrupt change in the corner. I know this is strange- but I think the game somewhat averages the height transitions somewhat on the track. Obviously in this example- you will need to adjust another section so that the end result is that the full lap "ends up on itself" so there is no bump in the SF line.
When I figured this out I mostly fixed what I will call the "remus problem".
Now- this answer might make some people upset. They might say "hey- you should adjust your car setup to deal with the tracks". And to some extent yes I would agree. The thing here is I have been thinking about this problem for years- and analyzing it for years as well. I have tried setup change after setup change and not really found a way to fix it. I think it is just a short-coming of the game that we have to deal with.
When I look at onboard videos from youtube of cars going through the remus curve- I don't think my "modified" version looks any flatter. So I wouldn't say it's less realistic. Remember most of the tracks that we have, with the exception of very new stuff (for example by Michael82) we didn't have accurate satellite and geographic data to make them 100% accurate because there was no google maps! What's to say that the original remus curve in the 90s matched the heights that they made the track for the game...? The author of the track probably guessed at the heights- which is also what I think microprose did as well. We all know there are some parts of the original tracks that aren't right. I mean- look at the original Monaco compared to Michael82 version...
Ideally- I think the best way to fix this would be to reverse engineer the GP2.EXE and change the overall way height transitions affect the steering input- but this is a little past my skill set. I would would love to hear how others feel about my solution - and I would love to hear yours! I will also upload the modified version of A1 (it is originally someone else's work) but please tell me WHICH version of A1 ring you downloaded so I can make sure it is the same one I worked on.
first - why?
GP2 seems to have been written so height transitions during steering events create a great understeer or oversteer. I think this is a little exaggerated and it not so prevalent in real life. Examples of this are:
1) Original San Marino - the right after aqua minarale
2) Original Portugal - the tight Gancho corner complex
3) Original Spain - the left after the first corner
4) A1 ring Remus corner you are talking about
5) Original Hungary - turn 5 (the slight left)
6) Original France - Adelaide hairpin
anyways...
There are basically 2 ways you can deal with this. You can either try and adjust the car settings to deal with it- which I think is very unrealistic because if you give your steering wheel too much input the car will still almost always spin. (I race with a wheel and pedals). So you have to be almost instinctive to NOT put in too much steering input- for me this is somewhat unacceptable. In situations like Hungary, Imola, Spain- it isn't that bad. In situations like A1 ring it is terrible.
So- what I did for A1 ring was I very slightly adjusted the track heights in track editor. This was not as easy as it seems.
First- you have to get the start and finish accumulated heights to be about the same- otherwise it will give a huge bump effect when you cross the S/F line.
Second- through many trials and errors I learned that GP2 heights are not so exact. Let me explain. I spent hours making mistakes before I figured this out. Lets use Remus for example. Lets say you load Remus in the track editor and see that there is a slight height gradient in the corner right near the apex is. You say to yourself "I will simply make this gradient less and it should fix the problem" right? When you make an adjustment, then you try the track and the problem still exists. Here is the reason why- The transition causing the problem was one of the next sections- on the straight! If you make that gradient less- it will change the abrupt change in the corner. I know this is strange- but I think the game somewhat averages the height transitions somewhat on the track. Obviously in this example- you will need to adjust another section so that the end result is that the full lap "ends up on itself" so there is no bump in the SF line.
When I figured this out I mostly fixed what I will call the "remus problem".
Now- this answer might make some people upset. They might say "hey- you should adjust your car setup to deal with the tracks". And to some extent yes I would agree. The thing here is I have been thinking about this problem for years- and analyzing it for years as well. I have tried setup change after setup change and not really found a way to fix it. I think it is just a short-coming of the game that we have to deal with.
When I look at onboard videos from youtube of cars going through the remus curve- I don't think my "modified" version looks any flatter. So I wouldn't say it's less realistic. Remember most of the tracks that we have, with the exception of very new stuff (for example by Michael82) we didn't have accurate satellite and geographic data to make them 100% accurate because there was no google maps! What's to say that the original remus curve in the 90s matched the heights that they made the track for the game...? The author of the track probably guessed at the heights- which is also what I think microprose did as well. We all know there are some parts of the original tracks that aren't right. I mean- look at the original Monaco compared to Michael82 version...
Ideally- I think the best way to fix this would be to reverse engineer the GP2.EXE and change the overall way height transitions affect the steering input- but this is a little past my skill set. I would would love to hear how others feel about my solution - and I would love to hear yours! I will also upload the modified version of A1 (it is originally someone else's work) but please tell me WHICH version of A1 ring you downloaded so I can make sure it is the same one I worked on.
Re: A1 Ring - Remus turn
Hi. Thank you so much, it helps a lot to know I'm not the only one having this problem.
I'd love to see your moidified track. I have tried lots of versions (all avaiuable at grandprix2.de), but the one I most raced is A1 Ring 99 by Gabriele Moschetto (https://grandprix2.de/Strecke2/Austria/a1ring99gm.zip).
But I'm open to try your track whichever it is.
I often have problems with the very same tracks you described, but, to me, none of them are so hard to overcome as A1 Ring,
I would also love to hear from all of you about how do you deal with this under/over steering problem.
Thank you again.
I'd love to see your moidified track. I have tried lots of versions (all avaiuable at grandprix2.de), but the one I most raced is A1 Ring 99 by Gabriele Moschetto (https://grandprix2.de/Strecke2/Austria/a1ring99gm.zip).
But I'm open to try your track whichever it is.
I often have problems with the very same tracks you described, but, to me, none of them are so hard to overcome as A1 Ring,
I would also love to hear from all of you about how do you deal with this under/over steering problem.
Thank you again.
Re: A1 Ring - Remus turn
I can confirm that problem in that A1-Ring corner and all the others mentioned by samsepi0l. Turn 2 in the original vanilla Barcelona is "amazing", one has to lift the "foot" carefully in what is otherwise a very assertive lap (well, I also struggle with the inside kerb at the exit of the Fast S that was removed for 1995 onwards.
And the Acqua Mineralli exit? Seems like it's raining! I wonder if the track designers were thinking about the Senna 1993 pratice crash in that corner, due to suspension failure (at least there as source stating that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwhC5FbuwPI).
Anyway, have you tried Roberto Remedio version? If I recall, I think the problem is solved or almost solved...
Cheers
And the Acqua Mineralli exit? Seems like it's raining! I wonder if the track designers were thinking about the Senna 1993 pratice crash in that corner, due to suspension failure (at least there as source stating that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwhC5FbuwPI).
Anyway, have you tried Roberto Remedio version? If I recall, I think the problem is solved or almost solved...
Cheers
- Attachments
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- rbr19_rr.zip
- (908.98 KiB) Downloaded 375 times
Re: A1 Ring - Remus turn
Sorry it took me so long- here is the track that I modified (I did not create the original track).
I also included the jams (which have already been converted), and the magic data file that I use for the track when I drive it in slot 13.
I also included the jams (which have already been converted), and the magic data file that I use for the track when I drive it in slot 13.
Re: A1 Ring - Remus turn
does anyone have feedback on this? Has anyone tried the modified corner yet?
Re: A1 Ring - Remus turn
Hi.
I've been busy this past weeks (marriage and new house) but I have tried it yesterday and looks pretty good. I'll have a better feedback sometime next week, but it seems it solved the problem.
I've been busy this past weeks (marriage and new house) but I have tried it yesterday and looks pretty good. I'll have a better feedback sometime next week, but it seems it solved the problem.
Re: A1 Ring - Remus turn
do you have any feedback?
Re: A1 Ring - Remus turn
Hi,
tried it out in a short test, felt good, thank you for the fix![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
tried it out in a short test, felt good, thank you for the fix
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)