"snap oversteer" on corners that have height transitions

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samsepi0l
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"snap oversteer" on corners that have height transitions

Post by samsepi0l »

I seem to have problems getting the car to corner right on curves that have the apex where an up-hill portion starts.

One of the places I noticed this the most is on the original GP2 San Marino track, coming out of the "aqua minarale" chicane.

Does anyone else have this problem, if so- what did you do about it?

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ismael
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Re: "snap oversteer" on corners that have height transitions

Post by ismael »

Interesting question. Yes, I acknowledge that at that point there is usually more oversteer than understeer. I usually attribute it to set-up itself; I historically had difficulty in Imola because of the chicanes - the mid-corner transition was never a good point of my set-ups, and only recently could I start to fix that. I think that you could just play with the spring, make it softer and see what happens.

I what other curves at other tracks do you feel that? The chicane of original Estoril, maybe?
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samsepi0l
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Re: "snap oversteer" on corners that have height transitions

Post by samsepi0l »

I haven't raced at Estoril in 25 years so I don't remember. I noticed this same exact thing on a 90 degree corner where the apex is at the top of a hill on a version of 1980s Detroit street circuit that I downloaded.

I think it has to do with the fact that it is coming on a upslope. I notice the car is drastically looser feeling on these kinds of corners.

The upslope at Imola is after the chicane. The chicane was just placed before the corner to slow the cars down.
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rremedio
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Re: "snap oversteer" on corners that have height transitions

Post by rremedio »

I don't remember having a hard time with that particular corner but I experience the same thing in several custom tracks when there is gradient change in the middle of a curve (both uphill and downhill). The "Monza" corner in Jarama is one of the worst.

I try to use soft rear springs when the track allows and I try to release the gas "pedal" until the car is stable (works at Jarama, might not be that great at Imola because you are supposed to accelerate there).

It doesn't affect the computer cars so it is always annoying.
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ismael
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Re: "snap oversteer" on corners that have height transitions

Post by ismael »

It's a kind of a challenge, yes. I once won a race in Imola (Ace, 100% RD, F2 and F7 on) but I got the help of a huge crash on the first going through Tosa; my fastest lap was 1m24.77, 0,87 slower than the fastest lap. I'm working on the setup and if get better than that, I'll let you know.

(Anyway, if I'm not wrong, CC-cars have a very slight desacceleration in the left kink after the start, which could compensate a little.)
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samsepi0l
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Re: "snap oversteer" on corners that have height transitions

Post by samsepi0l »

Ace level???!!!

Wow.

I struggle to keep mid pack in the middle level (semi pro?)
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samsepi0l
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Re: "snap oversteer" on corners that have height transitions

Post by samsepi0l »

So tonight I noticed there is a really bad corner at A1 ring that has this exact problem. I tried modifying the track with the track editor so that the gradient change in turn 2 (the hairpin) is not so drastic causing the car to snap oversteer. It was really bad on all of the A1 tracks I downloaded.

I'm having problem getting it to work. I made changes trial and error for 3 hours trying to smooth that out.
ismael
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Re: "snap oversteer" on corners that have height transitions

Post by ismael »

Agreed. I noted that same problem at the same track (I'm using the a1ring98_js version by Jason Sinnbeck).
Actually, I also noted it at the final chicane of Spa, 2015 version by Roberto Remédio (spa_2015_rremedio_beta).

As I'm planning to do a season with both these tracks, I'll try to work on the race setup itself and see what happens (rather than the track physics). I'm still not sure, anyway, if what I felt at Spa wasn't due only to a poor race setup...
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samsepi0l
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Re: "snap oversteer" on corners that have height transitions

Post by samsepi0l »

I managed to sort of "fix" this. I use the term "fix" loosely.

In my track (a1 ring) the problem existed in transition from track section 28 to 29. This is the apex of the 2nd corner. In the game the jump on the track was so high that it almost reacted like the car was going up a curb. The car would break free in the back unless you were very delicate and barely input any steering (I use a wheel)

The funny thing, is the height transitions here are all set to zero. I looked with track editor. I brought up the "track table".

For me, the fix was lowering the height on the sections AFTER the corner. I did the next 5 or so sections. When I did this, the track didn't line up correctly at the start finish line (there was a huge bump) so I tweaked the height values just before turn 2 so that the overall change in altitude was as small as I could get it. It took about 4 hours of trial and error.

The track doesn't really "feel" any different (I don't notice the change) other than the turn doesn't cause the rear to just jump loose. I think this behaves very unique- I mean the editor does not work the way you would assume at first glance. I did all of the reading I could find in the tutorials of the forum.

Learning the hard way!
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GP2tifoso28
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Re: "snap oversteer" on corners that have height transitions

Post by GP2tifoso28 »

The same thing happens towards the end of the lap in Aida, in that really tight section around the right hander. I use the original tracks and cars 99% of the time so I just drive around it and clearly my driving leaves a lot to be desired seeing as I'm struggling to outqualify simteks on ace level
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samsepi0l
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Re: "snap oversteer" on corners that have height transitions

Post by samsepi0l »

Has anyone been able to fix this with the car setup without adversely affecting the other corners?

I have been messing with the damper settings but honestly I can't really "feel" a difference based on the adjustments of the slow-damper settings.
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rremedio
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Re: "snap oversteer" on corners that have height transitions

Post by rremedio »

It won't fix it completely but I've been able to run full races with very soft spring setups especially at the rear end something like 1100/900 or even 1500/800 if you want to force understeer. Depending on the track it will affect your performance in other corners (A1-Ring for instance, where you need a bit more oversteer at the fast corners) but it is manageable. Also depending on the track it will require you to raise the ride height too much and that can make it worse so you need to test it and try to find a good balance.
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ismael
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Re: "snap oversteer" on corners that have height transitions

Post by ismael »

I would generally agree with RRemedio, regarding the numbers.

I can add that I developed a setup for Barcelona (original) which is incredibly good regarding lap times (historically, I used to struggle at Barcelona, so I was very happy when I achieved that). The car is also quite comfortable in almost every corners, either braking and turning. But I can't cut the kerbs at the fast S (the front is very stiff and the car goes airborne), and I suffer massive oversteer in turn 2. It's odd, but after understanding it, I just adapt the driving to it.
Laahustaja
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Re: "snap oversteer" on corners that have height transitions

Post by Laahustaja »

ismael wrote:
11.02.2020, 16:44
I can add that I developed a setup for Barcelona (original) which is incredibly good regarding lap times (historically, I used to struggle at Barcelona, so I was very happy when I achieved that). The car is also quite comfortable in almost every corners, either braking and turning. But I can't cut the kerbs at the fast S (the front is very stiff and the car goes airborne), and I suffer massive oversteer in turn 2. It's odd, but after understanding it, I just adapt the driving to it.
Just did the setup and qualifying for 100% at Barcelona and I can add that this is probably a common problem at this track. You have to make a compromise between soft springs that allows comfortable driving in turn 2 and the fast S (Nissan corner I believe) but the soft setup is slower and more "unprecise" in other parts of the track. Hard springs is generally faster but then you have to take turn 2 and Nissan quite carefully. I don't think it is possible to develop a "perfect setup" for this track that would be both comfortable and fast - the track has a good variety of different corners and a long straight which makes for a difficult setup.
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samsepi0l
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Re: "snap oversteer" on corners that have height transitions

Post by samsepi0l »

In my opinion this is the biggest flaw in the game. Same thing across many tracks.

We need to find a way to modify the physics so height changes have less affect on the handling of the car. I am not so much talking about playing with the setup (because this will affect the car everywhere on the track) but I mean modifying things with the track editor, magic data or gp2edit.

One way (which is difficult and time consuming) is to do it like I did for A1 ring. Here I changed the height values in the track so that the problem went away. This did not really seem the visual 'feeling' of height transitions during play but it sure made the handling more realistic.
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